Good Morning Friends! I finished up the campaign in Diablo IV on June 4th and have now had roughly a week of time poking around in the “end-game”. This morning I thought I would talk about that experience and how it mostly feels like “more of the same”. As of this morning, I am about half of the way through level 59, and at level 60 I thought I would take a stab at the next Keystone Dungeon to unlock the final World Tier. During my time at end-game, I have done a pretty wide variety of activities, but I can’t say that I have “ground” any of them terribly hard. Honestly, nothing about the experience so far has made me want to grind them. What I have been doing instead is casually picking away at the three end-game activities while working on my zone renown and collecting all of the Altars of Lilith.
Tree of Whispers
The first end-game activity that you will unlock is the Tree of Whispers, and you gain access to this immediately upon completing the campaign. This is somewhat akin to the Bounty system from Diablo III, and it will highlight various objectives on your map in graduated shades of pink to red. Essentially pink activities reward you a single Grim Favor, mauve activities reward you three Grim Favors and maroon activities reward you five Grim Favors. When you have collected ten of these you can go back to the Tree of Whispers to cash in for a box of loot. These boxes are for a specific gear slot and have the chance to drop glyphs for your paragon board and Nightmare Dungeon sigils. There is a chance at a Legendary item but it seems pretty low as I have opened several boxes and gotten nothing. When you reach the break point for Sacred and Ancestral gear, those don’t appear to be guaranteed as I have opened a box containing nothing but vanilla rares.
I feel like this is not exactly a great activity. It is busy work that you can do… but also seems to take an exceptionally long time for you to gather up rewards. Running normal dungeons feel way more rewarding than poking around the map and completing Grim Favors. The shortest route to one of these loot boxes is to complete two of the flagged dungeons, so I guess if just consider Grim Favors and the eventual loot box that they reward as a bonus, then it isn’t so bad. I feel like this system needs to have the threshold for getting a loot box lowered to 5, either that or have every box guarantee at least one legendary or unique. Basically, the system as it stands doesn’t exactly feel as rewarding as the time it takes to complete.
The next activity that unlocks is Helltide zones, which you gain access to upon unlocking World Tier III. These appear on a cycle of being on for an hour and then off for another hour, and will flag two contiguous regions on the map as containing the Helltide. Essentially this replaces the majority of the spawns in the zone with demons and causes a number of chests to spawn scattered throughout the region. Killing these demons causes Aberrant Cinders to drop, and then you collect these to unlock the various Tortured Gift chests. If you die while in a Helltide zone, you will lose half of the Cinders that you are carrying at that moment, so there is a certain measure of risk to reward for farming these areas. They have much higher mob density than you can normally find in the zones. The chest reward thresholds are as follows:
Armor and Ring Chests – 75 Cinders
Amulet, One-Handed, and Off-Handed Chests – 125 Cinders
Two-Handed Weapon Chests – 150 Cinders
Mystery Chests – 175 Cinders
The Mystery Chest rewards 1-5 Legendary/Unique items and several of the zone-specific crafting materials needed for upgrading gear. All in all, this is probably the end-game activity that feels the most rewarding. While you are in the zone it also feels like there is a higher-than-average chance of getting good gear drops in general independent of the chests themselves. My key complaint with this activity and honestly ALL of the “on-timer” activities is that it feels like they don’t happen often enough. I feel like there is never a point where a Helltide zone should not be active. Similarly, I feel like World Bosses should be spawning constantly to the point of being able to have a boss train. The World Boss scene in Guild Wars 2 only works because there is constantly a boss either active or just about to go active which allows people to zip around the map chasing the train. Helltide events should be a constant activity that you can pop in and farm at will.
Nightmare Dungeons
While doing bounties for the Tree of Whispers, there is a chance that you can get a Nightmare Dungeon Sigil to drop. This will unlock access to a nightmare version of a normal dungeon, that has specific affixes applied to it. These remind me of Mythic Plus keys from World of Warcraft, but in reality, they are also not dissimilar to Maps from Path of Exile. Generally speaking, you have positive effects marked in Green and negative effects marked in Grey which change the difficulty of the encounters. At the end of a Nightmare Dungeon, you seem to be guaranteed at least one Legendary or Unique item, which Uniques having a higher-than-average drop rate. The catch is you are given a fixed number of revives for the dungeon, and each time a player revives themselves it takes one of those away from the group. However, if a player revives a character, it won’t strike against that total.
The Path of Exile player in me is annoyed that Diablo IV has no real crafting system to speak of and that I cannot do anything to “re-roll” a bad sigil. The other aspect that annoys the heck out of me is the fact that when you consume one of these… it doesn’t just teleport you to the dungeon. It only flags the dungeon as a “Nightmare Dungeon” and you still have to run there on your own. Those quibbles aside, this is a pretty great activity and it feels fairly rewarding. Experience grinders are largely ignoring Nightmare Dungeons, but in truth, for a more casual player, they feel like a good use of your time. They are also required for leveling up your Paragon Glyphs, which makes that system feel a bit like the Legendary Gems from Diablo III. The only challenge with this system is it takes a bit for you to get enough drops to be able to sustain running the dungeons. I also really wish that they would simplify this system with something akin to the Nephalim Rift device so you could launch directly into them without having to screw with trying to find the damned dungeon on the map.
More of the Same
I recorded another one of my dumb videos, this time attempting to coalesce my feelings about the endgame into a twenty-minute video. I think one of my core problems with the end game that exists currently, is that it does not feel sufficiently different from the leveling game. You are essentially doing most of the same activities that you were doing before be it running dungeons or completing bounties. The only “new” activity is the Helltide zones, which again are just a retread of the zones you have already visited. If Helltide had actually been… going to hell and exploring a whole new map then it wouldn’t feel quite so rehashed. Essentially I guess what I am saying is… finishing the campaign doesn’t really feel like it is a significant milestone other than the fact that you get to skip the campaign on your alts.
The Atlas of Worlds in Path of Exile feels significantly different from the campaign even though it is effectively a retread of the maps you had already seen to that point. The expansion content like Delve and Heist absolutely feels like unique end-game experiences as well, but I would not expect Diablo IV to have anything that rich at launch. The Monoliths in Last Epoch similarly feels like a very unique end-game destination even though again… it is recycling the same content that you have seen over and over again. Even in Diablo III after the Reaper of Souls update, the Nephalim Rift and Greater Rift systems felt like a specific end-game destination that had an enjoyable flow to it. Right now with Diablo IV, I don’t feel like there is a clear “virtuous cycle” that clearly outlines how you should be spending your time. It feels like it is supposed to be empowering that we can “do anything we want” but that is pending that you want to do “more of the same”.
I am sure over time that Diablo IV will be worked and reworked into something that is much more enjoyable than its current state. I think part of my disappointment is that Diablo Immortal was a much more fleshed-out game at launch than Diablo IV is currently. There were a number of enjoyable activities that you could complete that set up a cycle of activities that all felt somewhat unique and allowed you to incrementally move different systems forward. I guess I expected more. There were lessons that could be taken away from Diablo Immortal that would have blended nicely with this game, because quite honestly… other than the egregious monetization… it was a damned solid experience. Admittedly those money-grubbing traits ruined the game for me, but there could have been some good design patterns to take away from that game that would have improved Diablo IV.
I am still playing the game as for the moment I am enjoying myself more than the annoyance… but the annoyance is starting to add up. I really want to see what the next world-tier break feels like, so I will likely be continuing to poke at this until I hit 70… or until some other shiny object takes my attention. Tomorrow I am contemplating doing a “how I would fix Diablo IV” type post.
The post Diablo IV Endgame appeared first on Tales of the Aggronaut.
Featuring: Ammosart, Ashgar, Belghast, Kodra, Tamrielo, and Thalen
Hey Folks! We start the show with the dangers of bowling in a fursuit and then dive straight into the Not-E3 shows. The entire crew has finally watched the Dungeon and Dragons movie so we talk a bit about how damned good it was. Tam and Bel talk about Knights of the Old Republic 2 and how maybe not all of the content in the restored patch should have been restored. Thalen talks about how faithful of a remaster System Shock is and how Nightdive is doing great work. Bel talks a bit about his experiences with Diablo 4 Endgame and how it is not that great. Tam talks about playing Wizorb on the Steam Deck and Bel talks a bit about the Honkai Star Rail patch. Finally, Kodra finishes the show with some talk about Co-Op games that allow players to share the cognitive load of problem-solving.
Topics Discussed:
Not-E3 Shows
Dungeons and Dragons Movie Finally
Knights of the Old Republic 2 and the restored content
Good Morning Friends! Yesterday I reached the point of realization that I am just not enjoying Diablo IV. On one level this should not shock me… given how much I have talked about this game not being the game I was wanting it to be. However yesterday over lunch I was playing for a bit and it hit me that I was really not enjoying myself. I think so long as I had the clear objective of “finishing the campaign” I was able to find some joy in the experience. Now that I am turned loose in the world post paragon… and realizing I have a fairly scuffed build that I am uncertain how to fix other than grinding for legendaries or respeccing to whirlwind… I am just not certain the struggle is worth it. I am not necessarily saying I am “done” with Diablo IV, but I am saying that I sincerely doubt I will make it super far running the grinding and gearing treadmill with this game because the moment-to-moment gameplay just doesn’t feel great to me.
I’ve said this in my own fifteen-minute-long video complaining about Diablo IV, but the core problem I have with this game is the way that the world scales as compared to how your power scales. Yesterday Action RPG released a video essentially underlining the same points. Diablo is a game about feeling powerful and smashing demons to jangly chords, and while after the second act, the jangly chords come into play… the cost of entry of the feeling powerful bit seems like it is a bit much. Every level I put on in this game makes the game feel worse until I get a drop… which patches over the problem until I ding again. There is just something about the moment-to-moment gameplay that feels off and maybe it is that the cooldowns are longer than I would expect or that the resource generation isn’t high enough… or that the resource spenders don’t deal enough damage. Whatever the case… I just can’t seem to get to a point where the game feels good.
I still have a lot of maps to see out there, and a ton of dungeons to complete in order to unlock the patterns contained within them. I’ve also not really made a concerted effort to go after the Lilith Statues, so in theory that is probably what I am going to be devoting my time to in the coming weeks as I continue to poke at this game’s carcass. There is a whole lot of map that I have not uncovered, especially in the last few acts of the game where I focused entirely on the yellow quests. Additionally, the Tree of Whispers is not an awful way to progress, and I’ve done a bit of that though really do not enjoy the short timers on all of those missions. I did not realize that your progress expired because I had completed 8 grim favors before logging out when the servers went to shit last night, and logging in this morning all of that progress is gone.
I will say that I had more fun than I would have expected watching the World’s First Hardcore race and I got to see several of the streamers that I follow hit level 100 over the last several days. I find it pretty awesome that a team of Path of Exile streamers ultimately got the first four spots on the unofficial Hardcore Leaderboard. Carn was technically the first to level 100, but Zizarin, Steelmage, and Nugiyen followed a few hours after. Then several hours after that I watched Raxxanterax who is probably the D3 player that I have consumed the most content from hit 100, and a few hours after that seeing Wudijo become the first SSF Hardcore 100 player. I normally do not watch streamers and largely consume content from them when it makes its way over to YouTube, but this time around I was curious how the race was going given that I am familiar with a lot of these people from other ARPGs.
Other than Diablo IV, I spent some time last night screwing around in Last Epoch. I am still working on my wannabe squirrel build and attempting to get the stupid helm to drop. I’ve also contemplated respeccing my Necromancer over to a necrotic/life leech build that I saw yesterday but I do not know how much work that would end up being to relevel my skills after the swaps. The current state of Endgame in Last Epoch feels a little lacking. I feel like I need an overarching goal that I am working towards to disguise the fact that I am grinding. Since there is no real targeted way of farming the exact items that I need, I find it hard to stay focused. In Diablo III, sure I farmed the same greater rifts over and over but often times there were goals that I was working towards like pushing up my GR level higher or leveling Legendary gems. Those took the focus away from the repetitive behavior. In Path of Exile I am doing maps to gain Sulphite and then doing Delve while hunting for City or Boss nodes. The hunt gives me focus and takes me out of the mindset that I am repeating the same loop over and over.
Speaking of Path of Exile… I need to spend some more time in that game soon. I know with Exilecon in July will represent the launch of a new league and I need at least ONE MORE challenge in order to get the pitiful little 19 challenge totem pole. There are three that seem like they are the most likely to finish up so I guess over the coming weeks I will spend some time working on knocking one or more of these out. After that, I am not sure what my focus is going to be. I had hopes that Diablo IV would coalesce into something that I wanted to be playing on the regular but unfortunately, that is not really the case. To be truthful… I didn’t really enjoy Diablo III until the first expansion dropped and changed a number of systems, so maybe there is hope on the horizon. Talking with a few friends, I seem to not be the only one for which the game is losing its mirth. Even then though… I might try leveling something else and see if it is more my speed.
Anyways I hope you are having a great week, and if you are playing Diablo IV that it is giving you what you want from it.
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Good Morning Friends! Last night I stayed up a bit later than normal because I was winding down the last few bits of the Diablo IV campaign. I started Thursday evening when the game launched into early access, played quite a bit Friday, Saturday, and Sunday ultimately wrapping up around 11 pm last night. I would love to be able to tell you how many hours I played, but the absence of a /played command or any other sort of player stats prevents me from doing this. That is a microcosm for Diablo 4 as a whole… some aspects of the game are deeply thought out and others seem curiously missing… like the seeming purposeful decision not to have a map overlay. I think this game is going to be a lot of different experiences for a lot of different types of players. If you are the type of player that traditionally expects to play through the campaign of a Diablo game and then bounce… this might be the best Diablo you have ever experienced. If you are more of a Diablo/ARPG hobbyist you will be presented with a cavalcade of choices that might lead you to believe that this game was not designed with you in mind.
I think ultimately for me, Diablo IV is a mixed bag of both brilliance and abject stupidity. For me, a Diablo game is a power fantasy about getting strong, leveling up, and then laying waste to the hordes of hell. In order for that to work, the moment-to-moment combat has to feel amazing and allow you to indulge in the power fantasy of firing off big attacks regularly in order to make the entire screen explode. Combat vacillates between feeling completely brilliant… and feeling plodding and painful and this is largely dependent upon if your abilities are off cooldown and if you have the resources to spend them. Given that the game has not yet officially launched and we already have a significant round of nerfs to slow down that experience… I feel like the game Blizzard had in mind is not the game I wanted to play. We will see if this changes as I begin the gear for the endgame, but the campaign while better than at any stage during testing… was still largely a frustrating mess.
As I have said before I followed a guide for this play through because ultimately I was wanting to give Diablo IV the best possible chance to grab me. Of all of the “spenders” I had played with during testing, the one that I found I enjoyed the most was Upheaval which is a big frontal cone attack. This involves a bit of kiting around but largely that style of gameplay does not bother me. So I ended up following the Upheaval Barbarian Leveling Guide from Maxroll, and for the most part, I think it did as good of a job as possible for easing my leveling experience. At this point, I could respec and try something else and really the cost of just over 94k gold to refund 52 talent points… seems fine given that I am sitting at 1.1 million gold while spending most of the game salvaging everything. I purposefully stayed away from Whirlwind because it clearly seemed bugged… and it was one of the abilities that ate the hardest nerf in the pre-launch patch proving that to be a wise thing to stay away from it.
My path through the game was a bit uneven. For the first three acts of Diablo IV, I spent my time plodding along and completing almost all of the side quests. Then as I reached the end of Act III… I decided that I really wanted a mount which is awarded to you at the beginning of Act IV. From that point forward I pretty much rushed through the game only focusing on the main story arc, because the leveling process had overstayed its welcome. Admittedly this is coming from someone who is used to doing the entire Diablo III leveling process in about 2 hours and the entire Path of Exile leveling process in about 5 hours. The endgame is the beginning of the game to me, and I figured there was plenty of time to start picking away at the rest of the side quests after having completed the story. Truth is… finishing all the sidequests is essentially mandatory for an endgame build as there are ten talent points hidden in the renown system that you are going to need.
As far as the story goes… this is without a doubt the best Diablo story to date and quite possibly the best ARPG story as well. That is admittedly not saying a lot given that most ARPGs only have just enough story to keep the wheels from falling off in transit. Would I consider this one of the best story games when judged against all of the great story games I have played? No… absolutely not. It is a serviceable story, but it is also a Blizzard story, and that comes with all of the baggage attached to that statement. It is a story about big forces moving against the player and plot twists that you can see miles away. However, it is still a fun epic romp through some really large set pieces that serve as an excuse to set up some big fun battles. The only real complaint that I have is that much of the denouement of each conflict plays out in the form of a cutscene that you watch through Blood-O-Vision 3000… as you touch Lilith’s Pedals. Diablo has always been known for its cool cutscenes and this is no different, but they also serve as the key method in which the larger plot moves forward which may or may not be your personal taste.
Most of the boss encounters are legitimately good. There is enough room to scale them up in order to create something akin to the Uber bosses from Path of Exile. On lower difficulties, they serve to feel just challenging enough to not fall over immediately as the bosses in Diablo III did. There are a few fights that felt needlessly tanky… but I chock that up to the general lack of balance, the game seems to have. I feel like Diablo IV is a case in point of why you don’t get rid of Q&A employees as Activision Blizzard has had a habit of doing over the last half dozen years. I think Diablo IV could be a great game given enough time and focus to balance the game into something that actually feels fun all of the time… rather than feeling fun under exactly the right conditions.
I’ve now officially entered the endgame of Diablo IV, but can’t really talk much about it yet. I unlocked the Tree of Whispers which gives you access to the Whispers of the Dead system. From what I understand a zone is marked by the tree and you are sent there to reclaim “the debt that is owed” I won’t go into that in any more detail as it could provide some spoilers. Essentially it is a bounty system that involves you going and doing specific activities in a given zone in order to collect Grim Favors. Grim Favors are then turned in for rewards from the tree that I believe give you access to legendaries and nightmare dungeon glyphs. Nightmare Dungeons are effectively mythic plus from World of Warcraft and the glyph is somewhat like a map in Path of Exile and will set the affixes being applied to the dungeon. I legitimately have only played long enough after the campaign to unlock the dialog box explaining this system and then took a screenshot of the area of the map it was being applied to this morning. I am sure later this week I will have a more cogent set of thoughts about this system.
If you want bonus points… you can listen to me ramble for twenty minutes about the live service dystopia we find ourselves in, and some of my fears about what a battle pass system will mean for this game. Of note… this was recorded before I started focus firing the campaign and doesn’t really reflect much on the game itself other than my general concerns. There are times I feel like recording one of these videos and I did so yesterday morning. Basically, my thesis is that a given player only has time to play one live service game at a time, and as a result, EVERY live service game is ultimately competing with every other one.
I think ultimately my stance is the same as it has been for a while. I think Diablo IV is a great game for the players who will play through the campaign once, and then move on with their lives… maybe to revisit much much later but won’t be mainlining the game. Was it the game I had hoped it would be? No… not in the least. Does that make it any less of a good game? No not really. I think Diablo IV is a very solid game that is just fun enough to get you past some of the major frustrations. I think the first map sucks ass and they would have been far better starting the player in the second map… Scosglen. Scosglen feels and more importantly, SOUNDS like a Diablo game. Diablo is a game about killing demons to jangly chords… and Diablo music finally starts to kick in during Act II.
If I had any bit of advice for new players approaching this game… it would be to do NOTHING but yellow quests aka the main questline… until you reach the beginning of Act IV and complete the quest “Donan’s Favor” and then from that point forward you can return to screwing around and doing side quests at your leisure. Mounts make a massive difference in improving the quality of life of this game and in truth Blizzard fashion… you are robbed of that experience until you are almost done with the campaign. Knowing what I know now… I would essentially rush to the point of having a mount and then return to a leisurely leveling pace. However for all characters from this point forward… I probably won’t actually do the campaign given that unlocking the mount once unlocks it for all of your characters.
I know that I am a very specific edge case when it comes to Diablo players. I liked Diablo III and felt like it got a lot of things right. Diablo IV feels like an overcorrection in attempting to erase the legacy of Diablo III from memory… while at the same time reconning some of the story elements to essentially make that game more or less not exist. As a result, Diablo IV is a direct sequel to Diablo II, in both stories… and the plodding feel of combat. If you loved Diablo II… and have played it recently and still can affirm that it is your ideal Diablo game… then Diablo IV is probably going to be a gift from the heavens planted at your feet. If you liked Diablo III… this game is going to feel like an uncoordinated mess at times. If you are a big fan of Path of Exile… this is going to feel like a bit of a slog compared to how relatively fast moving through that game can feel. Still, I don’t think Diablo IV is a bad game… and pending Blizzard gives the game some TLC over the next few years it might even become a great game.
I figure I will spend some time exploring the end game, but also am more than likely to happily jump on the next game that comes along which catches my attention. This is probably blasphemy… but I think Diablo Immortal was actually a more mechanically enjoyable game than Diablo IV. Too bad they chose evil and went full-on into microtransaction hell with that one because it is more the direct sequel to Diablo III that I really wanted.
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